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Another Transcribed Telephone Call
Starting at 00 . 38 on 8 July
1997
Paul_____ You've just woken me up - who's this Stella___
Hello,Paul,it's Stella here,did you get my messages P_ Well the lights
blinking but I haven't listened yet S_ Well OK,I've left several messages
and I think you know why don't you P_ Nothing particular S_ Well I think
so Paul . think back P_ Sorry S_ I said I think so,think back P_
What about S_ You went round to see Jan at the weekend [ A now ex-friend of
Stella's after more than 20 years being friends ] P_ Jan oh yeah,yeah S_
She told you that she would ring me P_ Yeah S_ And tell me what it was
all about ,so what is going on P_ Well I just want to get some outside
independent thought on these things S_ Right,so why have you got
yourself,I've been talking to Leafe,so wound up about these things . P_ Well
no one is telling me anything so .. S_ Well you haven't asked P_ Well
you didn't explain the last time I brought things up with you S_ Well how
long ago was that,about 20 odd years ago P_ No about 6 .. 5 months ago or
something S_ When I came down to see you P_ Look its quite
straightforward,are you denying that we lived together ,while Fian was conceived
S_ Yes but I happen to know that ... P_ Are you denying that S_
Paul,no I'm not denying that P_ Right OK S_ I can tell you P_ That's
a start S_ (huff) ,I can tell you that Fian isn't yours alright P_ Lets
carry on this line .. carry on this line OK . You're not denying we had sex
together round about the time Fian was conceived . S_ No,er um well no
actually we didn't have sex together about the time Fian was conceived,that's
why I am so sure P_ Well there's not much point in talking to you any more
S_ Well what,what makes you think that Fian is actually yours,I've never
actually claimed that he was . P_ Look this conversation is ridiculous
S_ Well yes,I can agree but it obviously has to be sorted out but my concern
is for Fian P_ Well yes S_ Both my children actually because Leafe is
quite upset as well P_ I'm not surprised S_ And you've disconcerted Jan
somewhat by turning up at her home . Paul , what's the matter P_ I can't see
much point in carrying on this conversation . Whatever you're saying is at
complete variance to what I'm saying S_ Well what are you saying ,I don't
really know what ... P_ I'm saying ,I'm quite prepared to say at this moment
that Fian could be Kelvin's or could be mine . All I would like to know ,how you
could be sure but you're saying that we didn't even have sex together, which is
plain ridiculous , at the time he was conceived S_ Not at that particular
time . How do you think I am so sure . Look,you know, you're a male while I'm
female,Paul,there's the difference . We know the difference, OK,we know about
when we are fertile our cycle etc . And so I happen to know,I wasn't sure about
Leafe,um but um I know,that I know that she was yours ,right . By cycles ant
times of the month and all those sorts of things P_ You .. I can't believe
that you can be that accurate S_ Um excuse me ,but it can be extremely
accurate,you're taking the usual male view that women can't possibly know . And
I'm sorry but women can possibly know like I know when I was expecting twins,or
any doctor can .. P_ You reckon you can tie it down to plus or minus a day
or so S_ I can actually tie it down to a time,I can actually tie it down to
a particular incident in both cases,yes I can,and I think you can find most
women can do that P_ Well I'll take advice on this,I've never heard of this
before S_ Paul what you think,what will you achieve by this um P_ I'm
going to hang up this phone now,I don't want you phoning again S_ Paul,I
tell you if you cause my son trouble,my son will destroy you, not me,my son .
You've not met my son ,you've not been in contact with him P_ No S_ Have
you P_ No S_ My son is a very different kettle of fish from Leafe and I
advice you to be aware ,you're dealing with a,if you mix with him you're dealing
with an extremely [?] eighteen-year-old . He doesn't suffer fools gladly and you
will be in a whole bundle of trouble if you try and contact him . I can assure
you not from me but from him P_ OK,fair enough P_ He is not Leafe,Leafe
feels sorry for people,Leafe gets involved,Leafe goes off on her own little ways
. Fian is not your son,number one . I don't know how much plainer I can make it
than that,he isn't your son . If you get in contact with him you will have a
whole bunch of trouble . Fian does not like people who cross him . P_ Fair
enough S_ He's a business man in his own little right . He's only 18 and has
just made £1000 on a venue he's just organised,he's off to India to do voluntary
work, he's just done his "A" levels ,he's projected 3 "A" "A" levels,and that's
in art subjects ,not pissey fucking science subjects which any moron ,if he put
his mind to it ... P_ Look I'm going to put the phone down ,there's no point
in talking to you any more ..
[Compare this reference to "A" level grades to the
testimony of FG Dawson on the second file of this series on the internet . This
woman in dissociation has total unawareness (fugue/amnesia) for the content of
her speech and actions in this "alter personality" . When reference to such
conversations get back to her the only way she can react to them is that this
info has come by subterfuge . The other way of dealing with it is saying it is
rumour with absolutely no awareness that she is the rumour monger . Back when I
lived with her I once jokingly said I had bugged the house as the reason I knew
something or other that I was not supposed to know -it was she who had told me .
Stella Constant immediately latched on to this as explanation and however much I
denied having done any bugging made no jot of difference . In her mind that was
the explanation . ] S_ Look come on you're dealing with a whole different
ballgame mate,OK, and you want to be really careful P_ OK I'm putting the
phone down now S_ I'll tell you another thing,you have no legal right to
Fian or Leafe come to that . You are dependent on their good will and I should
listen to what _ told you about the whole situation . P_ Yes I did it was
quite interesting S_ Good,I'm glad that you did because you should do
because you're acting so selfishly . All you can think of is your hatred for me
which has obviously sustained you through the years . Leafe has said that you
have tried to manipulate me .. her to hate me . And of course it just won't wash
. Another thing she knows what I'm about and you are a stranger and you don't
realise it but you've picked the wrong sort of tack . I don't know why you hate
me so much. OK,I was a pain in the arse when I was younger,I'll acknowledge
that, I recognise that,but why do you have to do this . I just don't understand
it Paul . I just don't understand it ,rally I don't P_ OK you've had your
say now is that all? S_ Why are you doing this ,do tell me P_ I'd just
like the record go straight that's all S_ But it isn't straight is it P_
No I know it's not S_ But it .. what your saying to my daughter isn't
straight ,it's a biased view of how I was then . But that isn't how I've been
since . P_ I've no idea what you're like now S_ And it's a biased view
anyway,don't you see . She said that you get really upset when she stands up for
you .. for me . Why do you do that . Don't you want her to have a good mother
,don't you want her to have a good relationship with her mother because she
does,don't you want her to . Do you want her to hate me or something because
she's not going to Paul,just to satisfy you,don't you understand . I don't hate
you or anything,I just don't in spite of all the trouble that you've been
causing my family . I don't hate you . I just actually am more concerned about
you and Leafe's very much like this about me that she's concerned about you .
But if you .. I'm warning you Paul,if you mix with Fian he's not like me and
he's not like Leafe,he will destroy you love,he really will and I mean that as
afriendly warning,I don't mean,beacause he will P_ Fair enogh S_ You
know he can be an absolute little shit and is extremely fly . I've seen him
reduce a grown adult to tears,yeah,I'm not sure whether real tears but a very
very,you know,sussed young man and he won't take ... and I'm warning to protect
yourself . Why do you hate me so much,why do you, because you do don't you
P_ As far as I am concerned I don't but S_ But you do Paul P_ But I
can see how it can be interpretted .. S_ You do see how it can be
interpretted well that's a start then . Leafe said to me and I've never said
anything to her about you other than,you know,I've always been very neutral
about you because I thought that was the best thing,right P_ Well I can damn
myself,that's no trouble,I often do S_ No I have,I think that you will find
,that Leafe will have said to you that .. that I've always been neutral and
haven't said anything bad about you . Would you disagree with that? P_ Well
she hasn't really said much about it anyway S_ Well that's right because
there hasn't been a lot to say because I've been neutral about you . I haven't
said a lot of things because that was our personal relationship,it was very
difficult but,I don't want to put that on her,you see what I mean? P_ Well
yes S_ But you haven't done that ,have you,you've thought it all in how much
angst I gave you and all of this stuff and as far as she sees it is you're
trying to turn her against me . P_ You're the social worker,you must be
familiar with these situations before . S_ I am P_ I mean,that's what's
bound to happen isn't it S_ No it's not bound to happen . Not if people have
good will . If people have concern about what is happening,they really are
P_ I've had 20 years to come to terms with it S_ Yes it is,it's a very
long time ago,Paul . That's what I'm trying to say to you ,why P_ There is
some things you don't forget S_ I know it was difficult but I was just a
young ,very young,messed-up woman then . I'm very different now . I was very
different ... P_ Well,going by this phonecall I find that surprising S_
Paul,I'm worried about my children P_ That's fair enough ,yes S_ I get a
phone call from one of my friends which has concerned me a lot ,what do you
expect . What do you expect really um P_ OK is that all S_ No I just
want to know why you hate me P_ I don't S_ You do,you do Paul P_ How
can I prove that I don't hate you then S_ Er,by not trying to make Leafe
hate me,not that you're succeeding,which is making her unhappy . By not
upsetting my child who is taking his "A" levels,he's got a good future in front
of him,I don't want that messed up P_ I've told Leafe,I'm not going to
contact him because Leafe requested me not to and I'll do anything she says . I
can say that to you S_ Well good,Leafe knows that I'm her mother and I can
assure you that's reasonable isn't it P_ You don't mind odd characters in
pubs bringing up strange tittle-tattle from the past . S_ What odd
characters in pubs . I haven't met any recently . What odd characters have you
come across P_ Well,It doesn't really apply in my case but ... S_ What
are you talking about P_ I'm talking about this Michael character in
Salisbury somewhere
[According to Leafe this "Michael" had taken her
aside in a pub and told her something about her paternity being not what she was
led to believe . Notice all mention of this "Michael " character were absent
from all the prosecution statements . I now know that my daughter is a proven
liar (supposed letters to hotels in Leicester and ficticious credit history
checks on her in her police statement) . It is even more firmly now my
conjecture that Leafe fabricated this informant to disguise the real informant
being one of her family friends . There were 9 people I recently contacted who
were aware of the questionable paternity of Fian and Leafe in the mid 70s . Only
2 of these were of the opinion that only Kelvin could be Fian's father . Both
had continuing contact with this Salisbury family . One was living in
Southampton around the time Leafe was conceived but was living in the New Forest
when Fian was conceived and returned to Southampton in about 1979 . The other
person was the one who aided and abetted S . M. Constant on the night of the
window smashing . This was the same person who had identified to me the serious
psychiatric episode of the father of S . M. Constant,Michael Ellis CONSTANT, at
Heron Wood in Middle Woodford ,Wiltshire in 1984 . I would consider it is just
as likely for her to relay potentially devastating information back the other
way,probably taking some sort of pleasure in doing so in the process]
S_
It's a bit strange Leafe and I talked it through and I haven't a clue . It's
just one of those things it will always be a mystery . Well yes it's best not to
worry about it unless he causes some trouble . P_ Exactly,I mean,whoever
this bloke is ,obviously knew what was going on 20 years ago and more to the
point recognises Leafe and knows how to contact her in the present S_ It's
very very odd that he knows . It's certainly nobody I know of . I did know a
Michael but it isn't him . It's very very few people that know of her paternity
. P_ I mean if he is someone of a dubious nature he is probably using a
false name anyway S_ Well I can't imagine,I just don't know . Leafe was
getting very worried,very panicky about it . Well I don't know who it is but if
it is someone,then it's one of a few number of people because very few people
actually know P_ You do see my point S_ If it is one of those people
then they're playing silly games and best just not to take any notice of it .
P_ Yes but there's people like that,take pleasure in doing that sort of
thing S_ Oh yeah,obviously the guy did take pleasure ,you know . I actually
went to the pub the night after it happened to see if I could catch him because
I was concerned P_ But you see my point ,if he knows what was going on then
and recognises Leafe and presumably he knew what happened in Fian's case .
Whether he knows anything much about it or not I don't know . S_ But it's
always been very straightforward where Fian is concerned as no one as far as I
am concerned ,nobody has ever been told about you because I knew P_ Well
it's strange you told me the opposite 20 years ago S_ No I didn't P_
Sort of saying things like he's got my nose and things like that S_ No I
didn't ,Paul,come on you know I didn't . That was Leafe I did . and you actually
because knew she was your's and you just sort of said "oh she doesn't look a bit
like Paul" . And me thinking ,crap . I knew she is ,the same way I know . You're
just a man . What would you know about these things anyway etc . Take it from me
Paul,if Fian was yours you would know about it P_ Well OK . I'll leave it at
that for the moment but I'm not convinced S_ Well take my word for it P_
No,I won't take your word for it but I won't be doing anything precipitously
S_ Why not P_ I never did then I can't see any reason to believe you now
S_ Paul ,I may have been fucked-up but essentially although I may have told
lies I also essentially always told the truth P_ Yeah,how to pick one from
t'other . If someone lies you've got to be dubious about anything they say
S_ I may have lied about not important things but I usually told the truth
about the important things P_ I would have thought it was the other way
round but never mind S_ Ur,you realy do hate me ,don't you,you really do
P_ No,just remembering back ,that's all S_ Leafe's right,Leafe's right
you do hate me . Why,It's such a long time ago ,why do you still hate me .
P_ Well as far as I am concerned I don't but er .. S_ I think
well,OK,you say that ,but I'm just saying that a person is not what they say but
what they do . Does that make sense P_ I'm not going to get into philosophy
at this time of night ,at one o'clock in the morning . S_ Now don't run away
. You know what I'm saying that you and all the things you have done since
you've been in contact with Leafe has been about getting one over on me P_ I
very much doubt it,I doubt it,but never mind S_ I think you have . It's been
extremely unpleasant . You got stroppy with Leafe when she stood up for me you
know ,yes P_ It's to be expected really in the circumstances S_ Why,no
it's not to be expected . Why can't you just be adult about this .
Well,Paul,this happened 25 years ago P_ I'm saying one thing and you're
saying another S_ My main concern now should be the children yes,yes . Why
what's so wrong with that . What's so wrong with being adult about it,eh P_
I've told you I am not going to contact Fian in the forseeable future and leave
it at that S_ I am concerned what is going on in your head,you know . I was
fond of you one time and I worry about the effect you seem to have had on you
that you hate me so much P_No S_ Paul,you think about it ..... [personal
reminisces] ... P_ You still deny saying at one point that Kelvin was
infertile S_ Yes I deny that,yes I do P_ That was one thing I
specifically remember you saying S_ Kelvin .. when I was drunk I may have
said all kinds of things,whether or not they were true or not ,of course,I
cannot deny absolutely but .. P_ It would have been nice counteracting this
S_ Listen,I don't remember,I may have said all kinds of outrageous things
but I was so fucked-up,this made a lot of sense to me,doesn't mean,doesn't mean
that it was right and it isn't true ,let me tell you that now P_ You told me
this but you never retracted it so I had no reason to disbelieve it [They as
a couple had no children for 23 years until 1994 when it was technically
possible via ICSI (Intra Cyto-Plasmid Sperm Injection) for someone almost 100
per cent infertile to father children. There is the matter of who is the father
of this woman's twins . The probabiliy of having twins via the ICSI procedure
,according to a recent report is 31 per cent . I had assumed this couple had
paid their 7000 pounds or so for ICSI but a friend of mine came up with another
scenario . If John Stoddart were the father of these twins then it would explain
his sudden intrusion into all this - I had not thought of this possibility .]
S_ All I can say to you is I don't remember ever having said that P_ You
said he had had tests in hospital and come back as .. S_ I only have your
word for it as I don't remember P_ But er,but er S_ But he isn't
,Paul,OK . I don't know why I should believe what you say now, assuming you're
not drunk at the moment . You know a lot of time has gone by and comeon Paul,why
should I believe you for that matter P_ Exactly S_ Exactly,you seem to
have done nothing except try to cause trouble between my daughter and I since
you've got to know her . It's hardly been a pleasant experience for her P_
It's not been a pleasant experience for me,it's not been pleasant for you S_
Er P_ Does Kelvin know all this yet S_ What P_ Are you going to tell
Kelvin about this S_ He's heard something about this of course . I'm bound
by what Leafe has said or else not certain about it P_ About the last
year [The following italicised speech, is in a different voice, that makes my
flesh creep when I hear it ,it is probably one of the MPD characters coming to
the fore . Jolting back to the usual voice when I say I will cancel the call .
Also a picture of the eyes of someone not connected with this story that
captures the appearance in this state - scary stuff]
S_ Are you
trying to cause more trouble ,Paul P_ No,I just hope you told him
S_ Revenge is sweet isn't it mm . You've used my daughter ,you're not
a bit interested in her at all,are you,you're not a bit interested . You've just
leant on it as a good excuse to have a go at making me pay for for all ...
P_ I'm going to put the phone down ,now,OK S_ Well comeon
Paul,be honest with yourself once in your life P_ OK I'm going to put the
phone down and don't call me again tonight . If you want to call me then phone
me at a reasonable time in the evening not in the middle of the night S_
Come on Paul you're never in during the day P_ Not the day,the evening
S_ You're out at the pub aren't you P_ You can phone me between 6 and 9
any evening of the week S_ Well I have tried between 6 and 9 but can't get
hold of you P_ Well you must have been dialling the wrong number . That's
all . OK I'm puting the phone down now S_ I think you should think about
what I've been saying . A wish for revenge is not a very good way to approach
children P_ I'm putting the phone down,OK S_ Don't you think you should
be concentrating on is getting to know Leafe P_ OK,I'm putting the phone
down End of call BT CLI "Telephone number 01722 412 ... called at 00 . 38
hours"
So to sum up yet another non conversation with this bloody woman
that gets absolutely nowhere
If you have found this file in an archive then
put keyword of "nutteing" in a search engine to find an updated version,also
some sites do not support the .wav sound files.
For anyone with further
interest in this story then copies of the affidavits, documentary
evidence,photos or even taped phone calls,used as evidence,could be made
available.Obviously,outside a court environment,some identifying features would
have to be deleted.
. Oh What
a Tangled Web We Weave 70K
